Cameron vows fight to keep Clacton

Cameron vows fight to keep Clacton

UKIP leader Nigel Farage (left) with Douglas Carswell who has defected from the Conservatives

Tory MP Douglas Carswell has defected to Ukip

UKIP leader Nigel Farage (right) with Douglas Carswell who has defected from the Conservative party

First published in National News © by

David Cameron has promised an all-out by-election fight against Ukip after one of his MPs dramatically defected to the Eurosceptic party.

The Prime Minister said the decision by Douglas Carswell was "deeply regrettable and counterproductive", arguing that only a Tory government could deliver an in-out referendum on British membership.

The response came after Mr Carswell delivered his bombshell at a hastily arranged press conference, accusing Mr Cameron of being "insincere" and not "serious about real change".

He said he was resigning from the Commons immediately to trigger a contest in his Clacton constituency - where only his personal following is thought to have been holding back the Ukip vote.

A host of Eurosceptic MPs have been deployed to back the party leadership and pour cold water on the possibility of other prominent defections to Nigel Farage's party.

But the jubilant Ukip leader hailed Mr Carswell's decision as the "bravest, most honourable and noblest" he had witnessed in British politics, describing him as a "perfect fit".

Mr Cameron, in Scotland to deliver a speech, told the BBC that Mr Carswell's action was "self-defeating".

"It is obviously deeply regrettable when these things happen and people behave in this way. But it is also, in my view, counter-productive," he said.

"If you want a referendum on Britain's future in the EU, whether we should stay or go, the only way to to get that is to have a Conservative government after the next election.

"That is what until very recently Douglas Carswell himself was saying."

He added: "Obviously I'll want to make sure (that there is) a very strong Conservative campaign in that seat, so they can be properly represented in this Government, and hopefully the next."

Mr Carswell beat the Labour incumbent by just 920 votes to become MP for Harwich in 2005, but won the seat with a 12,000 majority in 2010 - although boundary changes had seen it renamed Clacton.

Ukip performed well in the area in recent local and European elections, and experts believe it will be a big challenge for the Tories to hold on.

However, there is a potential obstacle in the form of Roger Lord - who has already been selected as the Ukip general election candidate for Clacton - and is signalling that he is not willing to stand aside in favour of his erstwhile opponent.

Setting out a litany of criticism of Mr Cameron this morning, Mr Carswell said he did not believe the EU policy was "sincere", saying the leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.

"No-one cheered David Cameron's Bloomberg speech more loudly than me ... but there's been nothing since. They haven't thought it through.

"There is a world of change and opportunity out there ... ministers are simply not up to giving us the kind of realignment we need."

Mr Carswell said it would have been easier for him to "muddle along" as a Tory backbencher until next May, but he wanted to do the "honourable" thing.

"As someone who's always answered directly to the independent-minded people of Essex, there is only one honourable thing for me to do," he said.

"I must seek permission from my boss, the people of Clacton. I will now resign from Parliament and stand for Ukip in the by-election that now follows."

Mr Farage said: "I don't think it is any great secret there are now a number of MPs sitting on the Conservative benches, and indeed some now sitting on the Labour benches, who hold Ukip's views very strongly.

"It was only a matter of time before one of them had the courage to come across, at least that is what I thought a couple of years ago.

"I have to say I had begun to wonder whether it would happen, but it has happened.

"And it hasn't just happened in terms of the defection, but I think what makes this all the more dramatic is the fact that Douglas Carswell is prepared to test this with his constituency."

Tory backbencher Zac Goldsmith, who has worked closely with Mr Carswell to demand measures so voters can recall MPs, said the defection should be a "wake-up call" and the move was avoidable.

He said Mr Carswell was a "model Parliamentarian", adding: "I have nothing but admiration for him."

Senior backbencher Bernard Jenkin, whose seat neighbours that of Mr Carswell, told BBC Radio 4's World At One that the defection had come as a "bolt from the blue".

"Douglas will regret making this move because the more Tory voters defect to Ukip, the more likely it becomes that Ed Miliband becomes prime minister," he said.

Fellow Eurosceptics Mark Pritchard and Bill Cash also indicated that they disagreed with the action, while Clacton Conservative Association chairman Simon Martin-Redman said: "We are disappointed and surprised that Douglas Carswell has chosen to stand down. I am a deep-seated Conservative and so are my management team.

"We feel let down and believe it's a regrettable and counter-productive decision since, as he himself has said, the only way to get a referendum on the EU is to return a majority Conservative government.

"We are determined to keep this constituency Conservative."

It is thought the earliest a by-election could happen is October 2 - the day after Mr Cameron is due to deliver his keynote speech to the Conservative Party conference.

Labour leader Ed Miliband said: "Douglas Carswell's defection is not just a blow to David Cameron. It shows the Tory Party is too divided to stand up for hard-working families."

Ukip's only representation in the Commons to date came when Castle Point MP Bob Spink defected from the Conservatives in 2008, although he subsequently stood unsuccessfully as an independent at the 2010 general election.

In May, Mr Carswell attended a seminar hosted by academic Matthew Goodwin, and was told that Clacton is the seat with the population most likely to be receptive to Ukip. According to the assessment, that is because it has a higher proportion of old, poor and white voters who have no academic qualifications.

Previously experts believed a Ukip victory was "almost impossible" because of Mr Carswell's majority and appeal to Eurosceptic voters.

But Mr Goodwin told the BBC: "He will not struggle at all to win an election under the Ukip banner.

"It's classic, left-behind territory for Ukip.

"Douglas Carswell has spent years cultivating an image for himself as being away from the Westminster elite."

A Ukip spokeswoman said: "Roger Lord has never been the by-election candidate for Clacton.

"By-election rules determine that the party is entitled to start with a clean slate of nominations for Prospective Parliamentary Candidates, with the final elected candidate being decided by the National Executive Committee.

"There will not be a hustings in these circumstances as the immediacy of selection that a by-election warrants permits, in accordance with the party's constitution and sensible procedure, for the National Executive Committee to overrule and finitely determine who should represent the party for the campaign.

"Roger Lord is a committed member of Ukip and we appreciate his contribution to the development of the party locally and hope that he understands the decision of the NEC to support Douglas Carswell in the defence of his seat, as a Ukip candidate. "

Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg said he felt Mr Carswell had made a mistake - insisting his friend had won most of his arguments inside the Tory party.

He told the BBC Radio 4 PM programme: "I think Douglas has made a mistake, partly because of what he achieved in the Conservative Party. Douglas is an articulate and intelligent eurosceptic, one of the first MPs to call for us to quit the European Union and the party was moving inexorably towards his position.

"I rather feel he has left at the point he was winning the battle for ideas inside the Conservative Party.

"Ultimately I think this single resignation won't many any difference. If there would be more, it would be very important but as a one-off, in three months time people will have broadly forgotten."

Tory MP Michael Fabricant told PM: "It doesn't encourage me (to defect) ... although I have some similar views to Ukip in Europe, that has to be the truth of the matter, but I have very different views from Ukip on so many other matters.

"I doubt (others will follow) but I was surprised by Douglas Carswell."

Prominent eurosceptic Tory MP Bill Cash said he disagreed with Mr Carswell's move, despite voting with him on most issues.

He told Channel 4 News: "The best way to guarantee we don't have a referendum is to have a Labour or a Lib Dem coalition. That would mean we didn't have a referendum.

"Those who vote for Ukip ... mean the Conservative Party would be destroyed by defectors to Ukip preventing us from winning the marginal seats.

"Every constituency has to be taken on its own merits. There are particular issues in the Clacton context which will come out in that election. I'm by no means convinced Douglas Carswell will win there.

"I really do think Ukip, under first past the post, have a real struggle on their hands to get even one seat, let alone two or three - but even if they do, it doesn't amount to a majority in the House of Commons. In order to have a referendum Act, you have to have a majority of MPs voting for it."

Comments (23)

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12:04pm Thu 28 Aug 14

taleoftruth says...

I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.
I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy. taleoftruth
  • Score: 3

12:33pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Bobevans says...

taleoftruth wrote:
I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.
HE is not just defecting like so many Councillors & MP's but is putting himself up I a bye election as a UKIP candidate

So UKIP now at present has it's first MP. Clacton is a very winnable seat F AND WAS ONE OF ukip's target seats
[quote][p][bold]taleoftruth[/bold] wrote: I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.[/p][/quote]HE is not just defecting like so many Councillors & MP's but is putting himself up I a bye election as a UKIP candidate So UKIP now at present has it's first MP. Clacton is a very winnable seat F AND WAS ONE OF ukip's target seats Bobevans
  • Score: 2

12:43pm Thu 28 Aug 14

MSG says...

Great news. Come on UKIP !
Great news. Come on UKIP ! MSG
  • Score: 6

1:31pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Rita Jelfs says...

taleoftruth wrote:
I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.
"Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they?
[quote][p][bold]taleoftruth[/bold] wrote: I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.[/p][/quote]"Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they? Rita Jelfs
  • Score: -8

1:55pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Edwardjohns says...

Bodes well for Hereford & South Herefordshire. Kip Waistell standing for UKIP and as Mr Carswell notes more people who stand for principle and passion are whats required in Westminster.....Mr Waistell personifies these traits.
Bodes well for Hereford & South Herefordshire. Kip Waistell standing for UKIP and as Mr Carswell notes more people who stand for principle and passion are whats required in Westminster.....Mr Waistell personifies these traits. Edwardjohns
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Thu 28 Aug 14

D_Penn says...

Rita Jelfs wrote:
taleoftruth wrote: I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.
"Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they?
Douglas Carswell is bravely giving up the chance to contest what was a safe conservative seat at the next election where he last polled a whopping 53% of the vote - double that of the Labour candidate.

Unlike most MP's who have moved to other parties in the past, he has also chosen to stand down in a demonstration of respect for the electorate and democracy.

He is risking his MP's status and salary, with no guarantees, to join a party that didn't even have a candidate in Clacton at the last election. His action in following his conscience is one of the most principled steps I have seen taken by a politician in a very long time.
[quote][p][bold]Rita Jelfs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]taleoftruth[/bold] wrote: I don't support UKIP but I'm pleased we have politicians like Douglas Carswell that are prepared to put their money where their mouth is and stand up for democracy.[/p][/quote]"Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they?[/p][/quote]Douglas Carswell is bravely giving up the chance to contest what was a safe conservative seat at the next election where he last polled a whopping 53% of the vote - double that of the Labour candidate. Unlike most MP's who have moved to other parties in the past, he has also chosen to stand down in a demonstration of respect for the electorate and democracy. He is risking his MP's status and salary, with no guarantees, to join a party that didn't even have a candidate in Clacton at the last election. His action in following his conscience is one of the most principled steps I have seen taken by a politician in a very long time. D_Penn
  • Score: 8

3:13pm Thu 28 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

Well done another former Tory MP joins the ranks, clearly like us he's had enough of Cameron's lies. Cameron has no intention whatsoever of offering a referendum so if youre sick of paying for Europe's mistakes it's time to vote UKIP.
Well done another former Tory MP joins the ranks, clearly like us he's had enough of Cameron's lies. Cameron has no intention whatsoever of offering a referendum so if youre sick of paying for Europe's mistakes it's time to vote UKIP. cj07589
  • Score: 4

3:21pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Counterview says...

Obviously the Tories are not sufficiently right wing for this bloke.
Obviously the Tories are not sufficiently right wing for this bloke. Counterview
  • Score: -8

4:31pm Thu 28 Aug 14

cosmick says...

Counterview wrote:
Obviously the Tories are not sufficiently right wing for this bloke.
First seat comming up, many to follow, including SOUTH DORSET!
[quote][p][bold]Counterview[/bold] wrote: Obviously the Tories are not sufficiently right wing for this bloke.[/p][/quote]First seat comming up, many to follow, including SOUTH DORSET! cosmick
  • Score: 0

5:45pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Counterview says...

Couldn't give a monkeys about South Dorset. The North East would be another kettle of fish.
Couldn't give a monkeys about South Dorset. The North East would be another kettle of fish. Counterview
  • Score: 2

6:57pm Thu 28 Aug 14

ok,jared says...

Rita Jelfs:

"Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they?"

The reason that he gave is that Dave is misleading the people over his stance on the EU.

At the last Election, Dave wasn't making this fatuous 'promise' to renegotiate our membership then put it to a Referendum. That came about when Dave saw the rise of UKIP.

The fact is that there won't even be any negotiations. Dave has been told by major European leaders AND by various EU officials that they won't take place, so his whole stance on 'a reformed EU' is based on a myth.

Douglas has realised this, and he is principled enough to resign his seat and stand for a party that will take us out of the EU with no fuss.
Rita Jelfs: "Doing the honourable thing". Well he would say that wouldn't he? It sounds better than a a rat deserting a sinking ship. Mr Carswell's hoping to retain his own Parliamentary seat and lifestyle. Since 2005 he's 'rebelled about" European issues. So why didn't he leave the Conservatives at the last election instead of now - because he'll be able to support all the Conservative policies while being a UKIP member - now he's 'seen the writing on the wall". No-one can accuse him of being principled can they?" The reason that he gave is that Dave is misleading the people over his stance on the EU. At the last Election, Dave wasn't making this fatuous 'promise' to renegotiate our membership then put it to a Referendum. That came about when Dave saw the rise of UKIP. The fact is that there won't even be any negotiations. Dave has been told by major European leaders AND by various EU officials that they won't take place, so his whole stance on 'a reformed EU' is based on a myth. Douglas has realised this, and he is principled enough to resign his seat and stand for a party that will take us out of the EU with no fuss. ok,jared
  • Score: 1

7:23pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Shropshirelad says...

Here we have one honest, principled man who does the honourable thing and puts himself up for re-election when he gets out of the decrepit, corrupt, lying, dishonest, unprincipled and morally bankrupt Tory Party. The LIB/LAB/CONs all run in the same old predictable mould, we know what they are going to say before they say it, we know what their policies are before they have made them up, in the main, they are all from the same elitist school (well, certainly the Tories and that sorry gaggle, the Lib Dems are) and they are all, with minute exceptions, in it for the expenses and what they can get out of it. How great it would be to get a few more like Douglas Carswell, how great it will be to have some people in Westminster who are not in it for what they can get out of, how great it will be to have a few in Westminster who are entirely "unpredictable" but who speak for morality, principle and concern for our country rather than only speaking and following the party line and the political stance. Well you can get this with UKIP but if you are hoping to have the LIB/LAB/CON change their spots and follow the UKIP stance - think again, it just ain't going to happen. UKIP must now be prepared for the onslaught from the existing Westminster parties and the Daily Mail. But one word of advice Nigel, get your players knocking on doors now - not a fortnight before the GE.
Here we have one honest, principled man who does the honourable thing and puts himself up for re-election when he gets out of the decrepit, corrupt, lying, dishonest, unprincipled and morally bankrupt Tory Party. The LIB/LAB/CONs all run in the same old predictable mould, we know what they are going to say before they say it, we know what their policies are before they have made them up, in the main, they are all from the same elitist school (well, certainly the Tories and that sorry gaggle, the Lib Dems are) and they are all, with minute exceptions, in it for the expenses and what they can get out of it. How great it would be to get a few more like Douglas Carswell, how great it will be to have some people in Westminster who are not in it for what they can get out of, how great it will be to have a few in Westminster who are entirely "unpredictable" but who speak for morality, principle and concern for our country rather than only speaking and following the party line and the political stance. Well you can get this with UKIP but if you are hoping to have the LIB/LAB/CON change their spots and follow the UKIP stance - think again, it just ain't going to happen. UKIP must now be prepared for the onslaught from the existing Westminster parties and the Daily Mail. But one word of advice Nigel, get your players knocking on doors now - not a fortnight before the GE. Shropshirelad
  • Score: 5

7:54pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Cityman23 says...

Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!!

For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against.

LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!!
Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!! For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against. LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!! Cityman23
  • Score: -1

8:54pm Thu 28 Aug 14

welshmen says...

Tory MP joined Ukip today, wants to see immigration lower than ten's of thousands, I hope we stop all immigration....
Tory MP joined Ukip today, wants to see immigration lower than ten's of thousands, I hope we stop all immigration.... welshmen
  • Score: 3

11:26pm Thu 28 Aug 14

cosmick says...

Shropshirelad wrote:
Here we have one honest, principled man who does the honourable thing and puts himself up for re-election when he gets out of the decrepit, corrupt, lying, dishonest, unprincipled and morally bankrupt Tory Party. The LIB/LAB/CONs all run in the same old predictable mould, we know what they are going to say before they say it, we know what their policies are before they have made them up, in the main, they are all from the same elitist school (well, certainly the Tories and that sorry gaggle, the Lib Dems are) and they are all, with minute exceptions, in it for the expenses and what they can get out of it. How great it would be to get a few more like Douglas Carswell, how great it will be to have some people in Westminster who are not in it for what they can get out of, how great it will be to have a few in Westminster who are entirely "unpredictable" but who speak for morality, principle and concern for our country rather than only speaking and following the party line and the political stance. Well you can get this with UKIP but if you are hoping to have the LIB/LAB/CON change their spots and follow the UKIP stance - think again, it just ain't going to happen. UKIP must now be prepared for the onslaught from the existing Westminster parties and the Daily Mail. But one word of advice Nigel, get your players knocking on doors now - not a fortnight before the GE.
Been out knockiung on doors tonight. Going to CLACTON when called.
No stopping UKIP now!
[quote][p][bold]Shropshirelad[/bold] wrote: Here we have one honest, principled man who does the honourable thing and puts himself up for re-election when he gets out of the decrepit, corrupt, lying, dishonest, unprincipled and morally bankrupt Tory Party. The LIB/LAB/CONs all run in the same old predictable mould, we know what they are going to say before they say it, we know what their policies are before they have made them up, in the main, they are all from the same elitist school (well, certainly the Tories and that sorry gaggle, the Lib Dems are) and they are all, with minute exceptions, in it for the expenses and what they can get out of it. How great it would be to get a few more like Douglas Carswell, how great it will be to have some people in Westminster who are not in it for what they can get out of, how great it will be to have a few in Westminster who are entirely "unpredictable" but who speak for morality, principle and concern for our country rather than only speaking and following the party line and the political stance. Well you can get this with UKIP but if you are hoping to have the LIB/LAB/CON change their spots and follow the UKIP stance - think again, it just ain't going to happen. UKIP must now be prepared for the onslaught from the existing Westminster parties and the Daily Mail. But one word of advice Nigel, get your players knocking on doors now - not a fortnight before the GE.[/p][/quote]Been out knockiung on doors tonight. Going to CLACTON when called. No stopping UKIP now! cosmick
  • Score: 3

2:55am Fri 29 Aug 14

Rita Jelfs says...

Cityman23 wrote:
Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!!

For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against.

LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!!
Carswell's a privileged, Charterhouse 'establishment' man. He believes in a 'regressive' flat tax system, which taxes lower earners as high as high earners. A flat tax system is called 'regressive' because it's a transfer of wealth from low earners to to subsidise high earners. Is that what UKIP voters want - an unfair tax system? He believes in less government, which means less services. As Cityman23 said, find other ways to protest - progressive parties that represent the majority of ordinary working and retired people's long term interests.
[quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!! For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against. LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!![/p][/quote]Carswell's a privileged, Charterhouse 'establishment' man. He believes in a 'regressive' flat tax system, which taxes lower earners as high as high earners. A flat tax system is called 'regressive' because it's a transfer of wealth from low earners to to subsidise high earners. Is that what UKIP voters want - an unfair tax system? He believes in less government, which means less services. As Cityman23 said, find other ways to protest - progressive parties that represent the majority of ordinary working and retired people's long term interests. Rita Jelfs
  • Score: 0

9:26am Fri 29 Aug 14

Counterview says...

Flat tax equals no chance for UKIP
Flat tax equals no chance for UKIP Counterview
  • Score: 0

10:58am Fri 29 Aug 14

ok,jared says...

Rita Jelfs wrote:
Cityman23 wrote:
Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!!

For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against.

LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!!
Carswell's a privileged, Charterhouse 'establishment' man. He believes in a 'regressive' flat tax system, which taxes lower earners as high as high earners. A flat tax system is called 'regressive' because it's a transfer of wealth from low earners to to subsidise high earners. Is that what UKIP voters want - an unfair tax system? He believes in less government, which means less services. As Cityman23 said, find other ways to protest - progressive parties that represent the majority of ordinary working and retired people's long term interests.
Actually, a flat tax rate taxes high earners as LOW as low earners.

It also reduces the amount high earners pay leaving them them more cash to spend, and it reduces the amount of tax avoidance.

The tricky bit is setting the initial rate.
[quote][p][bold]Rita Jelfs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: Read a very good piece today about left wing people voting for UKIP because they think it's a smack in the face of the establishment. Yet Farage and his ilk subscribe to the same neoliberal agenda of the Tories. They would like to see staggered rates of income tax scrapped in favour of everyone -from the duke /duchess/CEO of a multi million corporation to a shop worker paying exactly the same!! For no other reason, this is a good reason not to vote UKIP. UKIP is not for the interests of the majority in this country. Farage is not a man of the people, he's very much part of the same group he rails against. LET Tories turn to UKIP-others find other ways to protest!!![/p][/quote]Carswell's a privileged, Charterhouse 'establishment' man. He believes in a 'regressive' flat tax system, which taxes lower earners as high as high earners. A flat tax system is called 'regressive' because it's a transfer of wealth from low earners to to subsidise high earners. Is that what UKIP voters want - an unfair tax system? He believes in less government, which means less services. As Cityman23 said, find other ways to protest - progressive parties that represent the majority of ordinary working and retired people's long term interests.[/p][/quote]Actually, a flat tax rate taxes high earners as LOW as low earners. It also reduces the amount high earners pay leaving them them more cash to spend, and it reduces the amount of tax avoidance. The tricky bit is setting the initial rate. ok,jared
  • Score: 0

11:37am Fri 29 Aug 14

Counterview says...

Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope.
Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope. Counterview
  • Score: -3

12:26pm Fri 29 Aug 14

cosmick says...

Counterview wrote:
Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope.
Maybe i have missed something here, has UKIP released its aims and manifesto, i thought it was comming out in OCTOBER. 2014.
[quote][p][bold]Counterview[/bold] wrote: Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope.[/p][/quote]Maybe i have missed something here, has UKIP released its aims and manifesto, i thought it was comming out in OCTOBER. 2014. cosmick
  • Score: 1

12:39pm Fri 29 Aug 14

ok,jared says...

Counterview wrote:
Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope.
Those currently in the high-tax bracket include police officers and doctors.

I'm not sure how many of them are driving a Ferrari at the moment,
[quote][p][bold]Counterview[/bold] wrote: Great. So High Earners will have more cash to spend. What - on more yachts in Monte Carlo and more Ferrari's - doing absolutely s*d all for the UK economy. To balance this off, Lower Earners will probably have less cash to spend. Until nobody pays any tax whatsoever, the tax avoidance industry will continue unabated. UKIP equals no hope.[/p][/quote]Those currently in the high-tax bracket include police officers and doctors. I'm not sure how many of them are driving a Ferrari at the moment, ok,jared
  • Score: 0

6:44pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Counterview says...

OK,Jared. Yes - and also city slickers and company directors. Trebles all round.
OK,Jared. Yes - and also city slickers and company directors. Trebles all round. Counterview
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Counterview says...

No stopping UKIP now. Problem is, they seem to have two UKIP candidates vying for one seat. Let's see how Farage and co deal with this one then. In racing parlance, will someone be jocked off?
No stopping UKIP now. Problem is, they seem to have two UKIP candidates vying for one seat. Let's see how Farage and co deal with this one then. In racing parlance, will someone be jocked off? Counterview
  • Score: 0
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